Waterford Hills CX State Championships

Today was the last race of the year. It was a cold, and snowy day for a race, but it was a blast. This was my second cross race of the season, and was a real test for my knee. It is a bit sore but not too bad at all. All the snow on the course made it a real grind. I felt going into the race it was going to come down to tire choice and of course bike handling skills. I rode my Challenge Fango`s today, wow is about all I can say. Last year in similar conditions I rode maxxis raze and they sucked. The fango`s today were great, I never slid out going up or down any of the hills. I did have to get off and run a few times, but that wasnt any fault of the tires, it was all the people not riding fango`s. :) There were some deep areas on turns that I slid around in a bit, but that was expected.




































The course was similar to years past, but with only 1 dismount section. Some of the areas though were quite tough with all the snow, but all the snow made the infield nice and smooth.
This was the first race that I have ever done that Robert had to come out and plow it between all the races. The course was tight, mostly because all the drifting snow, so there was only 1 good line and everyone wanted to be on it.


TSB had 6 racers out today. Lee, John, Ben, Jason, Joe and myself. For some reason they started the 39 and over with us "younger" guys today. Traffic jams were going to be bad with such a tight course and it got a whole lot worse with twice the number people all starting at once. So myself, Joe and Jason all moved to the back of the pack to let the faster riders move up. We were just out there fun anyways. John got the lead off the start, and rest of us were on the back with Ben and Lee somewhere in the middle. By the first technical section it turned into a mess. The three of us, Jason and Joe were all toghether, Joe said he was getting a flat tire by the first straight away then I hit a big frozen clod of dirt that the plow picked up. He was able to get around me, along with a few other guys. I didnt endo, but it was close. By the time we got back to the start line I passed joe and jason was on my wheel. I didnt know that joe dropped out, but the two of us rode the rest of the race together. Sometimes running was better than riding, just depends on who was in front you. We were able to get around some people, and passed a lot of crashed riders. My laps times got faster each lap even though I felt a lot worse. My first lap according to my computer which I stopped by accident for a few seconds was 9:53, Lap 2 8:41 and the last lap was the fastet at 8:26. Not flying by any means, but I will take it after the way this year has gone.

The big winners today were John and Lee picking up 2nd place. This was Lee`s first time on the podium. Ben got 8th I think? Myself and Jason were either 17 & 18 or something like that. Joe had to drop out with the flat, but it was good riding with him. John also won the series for the C race.

No more races until the waterford spring training series starts back up in April. I have a lot of work to do in the off season to get myself back where I should be.

New Bike Bling

Well I am still waiting on the frame, but my I9 wheels showed up this week. I wasnt expecting them until about january. They quoted a lead time of 10-12 weeks, but they showed up in about 6.

I went with blue hubs/blue spokes on ZTR Arch rims. The engagment on the hub is amazing I cant wait to get out on them.

Front 791 Grams

Rear 1000g

Bloomer CX

Well it finally happened. I raced a cross race this year. The knee pain that has been bothering me all year didnt show up at all, even today no pain. I thought that maybe yesterday it was just numb because it was so cold out there. I just want to thank everyone for their support this year, hearing all the cheering and all kind words went a long way that is for sure. It sure felt good to race!!

So about the race, TSB had 5 of us out there racing. John picked up another win the C race and 3rd? in the SS race. T3 kept the streak going with a 4th place finish, and Ben (15th), Jason(21st) and myself(19th) finished out the field.
JB (12th) finished storng in the A race this week as well.




















(picture by Tom L)

The course was similar to years past, the velodrome hill wasnt used as much as before, so there was less off camber through that section. Behind it though there was a long downhill on the trails, that made a sharp 90 degree turn up a short little hill. The first time through on my warm up lap caught me off guard a bit, but in the race it didnt seem to cause too many problems. The ground was frozen up pretty solid in the C race, but it got pretty slick in spots in the later races.

I basically just rode the race at my pace and enjoyed myself. Well as much as a 194 heart rate average will allow you to enjoy yourself that is.














I am looking forward to the state championships and next season as well. Cant wait to see everyone at the next race.

What to do.

I am debating racing tomorrow at Bloomer. The knee is feeling better, or at least it was. I decided to get out for a cross practice yesterday. I botched a remount, bashed me knee into my brake, and also broke the other one when I hit the dirt. So not only am I really out of shape, my technique is not at all good. I think I am going to give it a try, but I will do a few warm up laps before I pay to race and see how it feels. I figure as long as just ride it at my pace, it doesnt matter where I finish, just being able to finish is enough of a accomplishment this year. Hopefully TSB will have a big turnout at the race also being that it is somewhat local for most of the people on the team.

I finally got the slingshot all built up. First ride I crash it and but the brake. Well not really the first ride, but the first ride with it being done. Oh well time to look for another brake. Here are a few pictures of it, before I broke it. :)














Tubular Fango`s, look for a ride report shortly

Vets Park and Iceman

Not much has been going on here for the last couple of weeks. Still waiting for my new pride and joy to be delivered. It has been 10 weeks now, and I am still waiting.

I made the trip out to day 2 of vets park. I took the DDX with me and was able to do a couple of laps before the C race started. My knee didnt hurt too bad, but it felt like I was going to have a heart attack. I guess I am not in cross shape, but no riding since april will do that you to.
TSB had a good day at the race with a John (2), Todd (3) , Ben (4) finish with Jason and Lee doing well also.
The course was similar to years past, there were a couple of tricky spots though, that didnt really cause as much chaos as I thought. Time the A race went off there was a light rain falling but hey those guys are studs and a little rain didnt slow them down at all.



















Iceman was last weekend. This was my first one that I have missed now in the last 4 years. It wasnt as depressing as thought it was going to be, it was a fun weekend hanging out with friends. It was a lot of fun having everyone stop by the tent and hang out with us for a bit. Sunday was probably the worst day, driving home seeing everyone with bikes on their roofs, and knowing that the race was done for another year.
TSB did really well this year. There was a lot of improvements from their times last year. Tough luck with Brian breaking his rear der. and busting up some spokes right out of the gate, but that is thing with mtb racing, it doesnt discriminate.

I picked up a Challenge Fango tire. I cant wait to get that mounted up and give it a try. The goal is for me to do Bloomer here in a couple weeks. We`ll see how it goes between now and then I guess. If not I will be out taking pictures of John which I am sure will make him happy.

Lower Huron CX

TSB had 3 racers today, John, Lee and Jason. This was Lee`s first cross race, and it sounds like not his last. The course was very similar to the last few years, with the big run up.
It was a cold start to the C race, with temps in the thirties and frost on the grass.
John picked up a third place finish in the C race and a 2nd in B single speed. Lee finished in 10th place while Jason got 15th after some issues with the course rope.

From Lower Huron 08 B`s

From Lower Huron 08 C`s

From Lower Huron 08 C`s

From Lower Huron 08 A`s, Masters, Elite Women

From Lower Huron 08 A`s, Masters, Elite Women

What would happen first?

I have wondering that ever since I hurt my leg in the spring. The question was, would I be back riding before the new bridge on the macomb orchard trail was open. Well today I beat it by just a few hours. I was able to get a ride in without too much pain, for about an hour. I had to use a platform pedal, but I was able to ride the bike. It felt so good! I put in a hour on the bike, something I havent been able to do since April. I took it slow, and there was some pain near the end of the ride but so far it is not too bad.
This might be the last warm weekend we have here in michigan for quite a while, so I am planning on getting out tomorrow also.

Stony Creek Cross

Well what a difference a year can make. Last year for the race it was about 90 and humid this year was just about perfect. Cool, sunny, what a fall day should be.
TSB was well represented 4 racers, Jason, John, Ben and Todd #3. This was Todd`s first cross race and managed to pull off a second place finish. Good job! John, Ben and Jason all did well also.
The course was a bit different than last year, a lot more beach to run on, and a log run up were added. The beach run was a bit controversial because when they staked it out, they put the post up on the outside of a cement wall that was about foot high. Well all the racers soon found it and ran on that instead of the sand. I cant say I blame considering how long the beach run was. That was fixed in the later races, no breaks for the A`s racers, not like they need any.

Just out the photo`s link on the side for close 700 pictures I took.

Knee update

Well I went to see the surgeon on tuesday, my knee has been messed up since april with only a little bit of improvement. He looked at my MRI, did an exam and didnt really see anything wrong with my knee. He thinks I may have scar tissue built up on the front of me knee because that is kind of painful, but I can deal with that pain. The pain in the back on my leg is much worse. It really feels like the calf muscle more than anything else. So I figure if I am going in for surgery I might as well go ahead and ride my bike some. It feels better than it did the last time I tried to ride a month or so ago. So now, if it continues to feel better, maybe I just need more rest. I would rather not have surgery if I dont really need it. It would just be nice to know exactly what is going on with it. Oh well nothing is ever easy.

KTR Double Cross

What a great weekend of racing. The weather was just about perfect, even though it was not very cross like. It sure feels good that it is cross season again, I just wish I could race. Since I cant race and I dont know when I will be able to I decided to take up a new hobby to get me through, photographing the races. Check out my photos sections for about 700 pictures from the two days.
Team Sandbag did good both days. John and Ben ended up racing, John both days, and Ben just day 2.

JP totally dominated both days of racing, it wasnt even close. Right from the start he had the lead and never gave it up. But a lot of local Michigan guys raced really strong and finished really well.
Thanks to Kinetic Systems and Tailwinds for putting on another great start of the season.

Next up the GP of Ithaca. Brian is doing a great job setting up this race and I hope it grows this year over last year.

Raleigh Technium 480 Project

While we were up north for our wedding I on stumbled onto my next project. Someone posted up on mmba that they were looking for a older road bike, size 56cm. One of the responses was from someone who had a old Raleigh Technium 480 that was about a 60cm. I have been looking for a older road bike to make into a fixed gear/single speed for some time. My teammate Kyle had a older Bianchi that I was going to get from him, but that hasnt worked out yet. So for $50 dollars I am now the proud owner of a bike that was made when I was 12.

The bike is in really good shape, just a few scratches in the paint, the wheels are even true.
The color is very 80`s, mauve and white.
These bikes are a bonded aluminum and steel mix, glued at the at the head tubes lugs, and bottom bracket. It is a pretty light bike for it`s day.
I am thinking about building it up with white wheels, white Toupe saddle and white bar tape. I think I might pick up a Chris King Gripnut headset as well, but I am not sure the color.
The bike will need some work for sure. The headset feels ok, but the bottom bracket needs to be re-built.
I am going to get a set of wheels that have a flip flop hub so I can run the bike fixed/free. I think that will be the best setup, for the riding that I am going to be doing.

Here are some more pictures of the bike. I want to update my blog as I get new parts on the bike so look for more updates soon.

August 23rd

The big day finally arrived.

From Wedding Ceremony

We got married!!

Noelle found the place back in the winter, it is called frog pond village. She knew right away that it was the place. It is just outside of Traverse City, which is about 4 hours from where we live. We thought it would be nice to do a destination wedding, and TC is a place that a lot of people really enjoy. 9 months since our engagement went by really fast.

Everything went really good. It rained like crazy the morning of the wedding, but I was watching the weather and it looked like the line of rain was moving through really fast. Sure enough, about 2 it started to clear up, the sun came out and the temperature dropped. All of those are good things when you have a outdoor wedding, and are wearing a black tux.

We wanted a different wedding, we tried to keep it small also. This place was very outdoorsy and very much us. It is a really nice place, we had a jazz band playing (Mike Davis Trio) and they were great. No one danced really, but with the music playing and all the places outside for people to just hang out, it was really nice.

The food was really good, the only complaint was with the owner of frog pond, she needs to just focus on running the place and not doing the flowers. She didnt deliver what we expected and I think it was over priced. But otherwise it was a great place. (In case you stumble on this looking for info on FPV)

Just out the photo link on the right, for a ton of pictures from friends and family.

This sucks

5 weeks and no riding. I can just feel the summer slipping away. I have been doing PT 3 nights a week, but everytime I try to get on the bike no luck. I was really hoping that it was going to feel better this week. Most of the time it doesnt bother me, but 5 minutes on the bike and the pain was back. I am going to a different doctor next week. Hopefully he can shed some light on what is going on.

Bike Demo

I was able to suffer through the knee pain and ride some really cool bikes on saturday at ILRA bike demo.
I was able to ride a 29er Titus Racer X Ti, a Titus Fireline Exogrid 29er, a Pivot Mach 4 and a Cannondale Rize.
First up was the 29er RX.

Wow what a great riding bike. I really dont know what it was, but the bike just seemed so fast. It fit me just right, and every other bike I rode was lacking in comparison. I really like the bike, I have never felt so connected to a bike before. I have heard people say riding a 29er was like being in the bike instead of on top of it.

Next was the Pivot Mach 4

I have heard really good things about the bike, being that it is a Chris Cocalis design. I wasnt digging the bike at all. I couldnt wait to get off the bike actually. I dont think the bike was set up quite right for me, I had to adjust the seat angle, height etc... It just felt really slow, the bars were really wide, and it just didnt feel as good as the RX.

I rode the carbon Rize 1 next.

I like the bike, the bars were way to wide, the suspension was set really soft and I couldnt figure out how to get the lefty unlocked. But even with all of that i liked the bike. It seemed to ride and climb really good for, a longer travel bike.

The last bike I rode and, only hardtail, was a Sexogrid Fireline 29er by Titus.


The frame was too small for me, but the bike rode really well. It was a 29er so it fit me in the seat tube, but the top tube was a bit short. It was a lot smoother than I expected it to be, but there was a lot of chain slap going on. The bike was really nice though.

I really wanted to ride a Scott Spark, an Epic and a scalpel, but it didnt work out.

So for me the winner was the Titus Racer X 29er. It was by far the best feeling bike I have ever ridden. So now the main question for me is, would I go 29er? I have a few months too make up my mind, and the Sexogrid, is it worth the cash...

Here we go again

The last couple of weeks I have been struggling with knee pain. I am not sure what is causing it or why it started all of the sudden either. For some reason every time I ride the bike I get a pain in my right knee. It seems to be in the back of the knee in the tendon. If you are sitting on a chair with toes pointed up and heel on the ground and try to slide your foot back towards your body that is when the pain is the worst. But just walking, and stretching out my leg makes it hurt as well. I guess I am going to have to go into the doctor and see what is going on. I am hoping to get some advice from my cousin this weekend that is a PT. At least it is early in the season, but I really hope it isnt something severe.

Cross Sexo grid

Saw this bike posted on the cyclocross mag. website. What a beautiful bike. Titus makes some of the finest looking bikes around. You pay top dollar though. I dont even want to guess at the price of this bling cross bike. Based on their road bikes, I am sure it is probably the cost of 2 or 3 regular cross bikes.
Sounds like they will be offering a steel and a uber-bling version in Ti.


Cant wait to see one in person or read some reviews.

Ugh

Not sure where I got this from, but man feels like I got hit by a truck. Thrusday I was feeling fine, getting ready race this weekend at bloomer, I even bought some cones to practice the one turn I can not make. On the way home though my entire body started to ache. Time I got home I was starting to shiver I took my temperature, and it was normal. About an hour later I took it again and it was 101. Amazing how you can go from feeling fine to crap so fast. I thought I was getting better on friday, but now it has turned into a stomach flu thing.
So no racing bloomer for me tomorrow. Hopefully I am feeling well enough to go hang out for a bit and get my skin suit.
This sucks!

Just a tease

The last few days here have been really nice. Starting with last week saturday all the way through about wednesday the weather has been above normal or at least average.
Saturday I did my first road race. It was an interesting experience. I must say the first few laps I was a bit nervous about riding in the pack at waterford. But eventually I got used to it.
Sunday we rode pontiac lake rec. area for the first time this year. Overall the trail was in good shape. Some mud, but not too bad. My legs were tired from the race on saturday, but it still felt good to get out and ride in the woods.
This week on monday and tuesday I was able to get some dirt road riding in. I took the fuel out on monday and the slingshot on tuesday. I tried lowering the seat a bit on the fuel to get it closer to the height of my cross bike. I think it felt better. Ever since I have been fitted on that bike, I felt like I have been able to generate much power. Looking forward to trying it out on the trails in the next couple of days. When I got my fit done for it at fraser, they really raised my seat up a lot from where I had it before. Overall I have not been very happy with the fit that they did. I guess I will have to take it to Jeff at kinetic to see what he thinks, I really dig the cross bike setup he did for me.

Lets see if you can guess...

When was this picture taken??














Was it January? How about December? Perhaps it was November??

Nope it is March 27th and there is about an inch or two of snow on the ground and it is still coming down hard. There is even a snow advisory! To quote NOAA "TOTAL ACCUMULATIONS WILL RANGE FROM 3"- 6" OF NEW SNOW"

What is going on with this weather this winter?

I think I need to put up a picture or two of a more pleasant time called SUMMER. Not sure if people remember what summer is. I can only vaguely remember myself, seems like you can go outside and be warm!! Maybe that is just a myth that people talk about to get through this cold, white time of the year?

More Snow

WHY???

Turned the corner???

Well maybe after this weekend we will have finally turned the corner on the winter and are heading towards spring. Luckily we dodged a huge snow storm and the forecast for next week is looking, well, normal for this time of year. This winter normal is good. It has been colder and snowier than any of the recent winters.
I can not wait to get out on the trails again and feel dirt under my tires instead of snow and ice. I think the last time that happened was in January when we got a few warm days. Seems like we got out to stony for a ride, and shortly after the snow returned. Normally I dont mind riding in the snow, but this year there has just been so much.
Looking back at my rides from last year the first trail ride of the spring was March 30th at PLRA. I have a feeling this is going to be a wet spring with the 80+ inches of snow that we got so far. The first race is only a little over a month away now. I guess the rollers and trainer will have to do.

DDX is complete...

Well almost. I finally got the bike ready to be ridden, but not with the helium wheels. I am still waiting to get a cassette and a set tubular tires for it. So here is the build up:
Dura Ace Front der.
Ultegra Rear der.
Ultegra Shifters
Ritchey WCS Compact Crank
Ritchey WCS Carbon Fork
Ultegra BB
SCX-5 Brakes
Reynolds Comp Stem
Specialized Bar
Tektro Top Levers
Bonty Bar Tape
Mavic Helium Rims

Not sure what the total weight of the bike is, but it feels pretty light.

Weekend Racing

So last weekend was the first time this year I was able to get out and get a long ride in really. We had a pretty good size group on saturday doing laps around stony creek. It felt really good to get out and ride, but it didnt feel so good to get smoked by some guys on mtb`s while I was on my road bike. But I was able to get just under 70 miles in for the two days.
On sunday Tim had a great idea of starting up a weekly TT series. Just a low key thing for fun and to get everyone into shape for the racing season that is quickly approaching. I posted the idea to the TSB site and lot of people sound pretty pumped about it. I also mentioned it to few other people as well and they thought it was a great idea. Hopefully this takes hold and we can get a good turn out. If you are reading this and are interested just check the team site for details.

I plan on getting some pics and will post up.

DDX Build Up

Well my slingshot DDX project is almost complete. Just a matter of switching my Ritchey WCS crankset off of my orbea with the R-700, and taping the bars. I picked up some bright red bontrager bar tape which should look really nice on the bike. When it gets closer to cross season I will pick up a pair gray Tufu flexus tires for my Helium rims. That should make the bike look pretty darn cool.














Just waiting for the final touches.














Cant wait to get the bike done and take it out for a spin. It was going to be my bad weather bike/pit bike but I dont know that I can subject to her that...

Crystal Mountain

We took advantage of a long weekend to get up north to Crystal Mountain for snowboarding this past weekend. I thought we had a lot of snow down here, but we have a lot less than they do. The drive up was interesting on Thursday afternoon. I got out of work a little bit early and we were on the road by 4. We decided to go a different route than I-75-M-72 like we usually take when we head up the Traverse area. We went across 10 to M-115 that took us all the way to Crystal Mountain, which seems like a more direct route. We were making good time until we got onto 10, then it started to snow. The further north and west we got the worse the roads got. By the time we got on M-115, we couldnt even see the lanes, road or much of anything else because it was snowing so hard. The WRX handled the snow great though, and I was able do 40-50 all the way up.
Friday we got out on the mountain for snowboarding for most of the day. What a great resort, at least for michigan. They have a lot of longer green and blue runs that were quite a bit of fun and the snow was great. It didnt take me too long to get back to feeling pretty good on the board. It was a cold day, and turned out to be very crowded. We planned on getting some more time in on sunday, but it rained all day and was warm. So at least we got out on friday.

Saturday we spent most of the day in TC, we checked out the caterer for our wedding. The food was good, and we will probably end up going with them.
I found a great deal on some keen winter boots, we were planning on going snowshoeing later in the day, and I needed some winter boots. Back Country Outfitter had some on sale, and they even had my size. We went to quite a few of the other shops in the area, but I am happy I found these. They worked really good and kept my feet nice and warm. They apparently didn't have any trails at the resort that weren't for XC skiers so we just went back to house that we rented and tromped around in the snow there.
Later that night we went and rented some skates. This was the first time I have been on skates in a few years, and probably the first time in 10 years that I have not worn goalie skates. It took me a few laps around to get the feel back. Noelle was starting to get the hang of it pretty well to, being that it was really her first time skating. I guess I miss hockey more than what I was thinking I did. Maybe one of these weekends I will have to go play some drop in hockey and see if my knees hold up or not.
It was fun, but sure feels good being home.

Do we need more snow?

Just sitting here on the couch, and the snow is still coming down. We probably have at least a foot of snow right now. I got home from work and had to shovel the driveway after getting the car stuck. Apparently the snow removal company thought it was a good idea to plow the road, and leave a huge pile of snow in front everyone`s driveway. At least I got a good upper body workout in. Also rode the bike for about an hour tonight. I was really hoping to get outside on the road this weekend, but it looks like it is going to be another wet weekend. Hopefully the snow will let up and it will dry up there enough to get a ride in.

Riding the rail trail

We didnt quite get the 11" of snow yesterday that was forecast. We probably got 3-4 inches though, so not too bad. I figured being that we lucked out and it was fairly warm out I would get out for a ride on the macomb orchard trail. Usually I head south on the trail to stony creek or bloomer, but today I decided to head north east to see what was new. I stopped and took a few pictures along the way. I rode the 69er again today, thinking that the bigger tire would help with the snow. Some parts of the trail wasnt too bad, but there were a lot of snowmobile and 4 wheeler tracks on the trail. Good thing it is a non-motorized trail, at least I didnt get run down by one.

This picture is on the tressel bridge that crosses a small river. The river is probably 30 feet below the bridge.















This is a shot looking south from the bridge.
















Close to the Coon Creek road crossing.

Stupid Murphy

Why cant I ever get my canti`s set up right. Every time I try, I end up just making more of a mess out of it than where I was. Tonight I decided to put the new bar on the ciclocross, and swap out the stem, and put the old stuff on the slingshot. First problem, the new bars are not round so the cross top bars dont fit. Hmm, well I dont use them that much anyways, put them on the slingshot. Alright, so now I have to undo my canti`s. Well shouldnt be too much of a problem, just clamp it back down where they were before. Hmm, now the housings are a different length and so are the cables at least in relation to the carrier. The front went fairly smooth. The rear cable, though started to fray, then it wasnt long enough. Now it is fraying even more and still isnt long enough. So into the shop it will go tomorrow. I need a new front der. cable anyways, might as well have them replace them all. Why does it seem like everytime I try to do a simple project it turns out to be a mess? I guess that is the beauty of having a bunch of bikes though. Always something else to ride.

Surly 96er

So a while back I started seeing some threads about 96er bikes. Basically it is a bike with a 29" wheel and 26" inch wheel. Sometime times the big wheel is in the front, other times it is in the back. Sometimes they are called 96er, other times 69er. Either way it sounded like a interesting concept. Surly makes some really cool bikes, and after doing some digging around online I found out that you can fit 29" wheels into a 1x1 frame, which is normally a 26" bike. The rigid fork will hold up to about a 2.1" 29er tire, and the rear looks like it has a lot of space also. So after a bit of searching I found some used, cheap 29er wheels online. Swapped out the fork with my rigid one, and now I have a 96er.

My first ride on the bike was in fresh snow out at the tree farm. Hard to tell how the bike rides, it took us twice as long as normal to ride the trail. I didnt have any problem getting used the slight geometry change of the bike. Just riding it on the road it felt like it rolled really good. I think that the idea of a 96er or a 650B bike has a lot of potential. It has the benefit of a big wheel up front to roll over things, but the back wheel is smaller and spins up faster.

After more rides on the bike I will update with what I think of it.

Quick Trip

Made a quick trip up north this weekend to look at a place we are thinking about getting married. Of course, we picked one of the coldest weekends of the year to take a look at the place. Lots of snow, lots of wind and lots of cold. I wish I had snowshoes or xc ski`s, because there was a lot of snow on the ground.

Just a couple of pictures of the place. It was really pretty with all the snow on the trees, and up north look of the place.

Chappel Area

More to come...